The Curtain and the Cross
We were created by a creative God. Nathan and Grace (along with some of other friends) discuss what it's like to be a creative Christian in both the public school system and the theatre world.
The Curtain and the Cross
Empathy in Education: Blending Faith, Arts, and Advocacy
Ever found yourself pondering how to seamlessly mix faith, education, and empathy? Imagine navigating snow days, and virtual classrooms, while orchestrating the magic of school productions like "The Wizard of Oz" and "Beauty and the Beast Junior." Our latest episode of "The Curtain and the Cross" not only recounts these chaotic yet inspiring days but also sheds light on the challenges of resetting routines amidst unpredictability. We grapple with the effects of social media on relationships and the importance of addressing these misunderstandings with grace, fostering an environment where love and acceptance prevail.
Step into the shoes of a young high school teacher balancing authority with approachability, as we share personal journeys of building meaningful connections with students. It's about turning the classroom into a ministry, where respect and equality lead the way to enriching educational experiences. Through heartfelt discussions and stories like "Brave the Dark," we explore the art of advocacy, revealing how teachers can be transformative mentors in students' lives, particularly in the realm of arts education. We touch on the struggles and rewards of advocating for overlooked students, ensuring they shine both on and off the stage.
Could empathy be the secret ingredient to a supportive educational environment? We certainly think so. This episode underscores our human inclination to judge and emphasizes the virtues of loving and listening instead. We delve into the role of mandated reporters and the balance between responsibility and empathy, using a popular TikTok game as a metaphor for judgment-free communication. We extend an invitation to Christian artists and educators to join our conversation, fostering a community rooted in love and acceptance across public schools and theater. Connect with us on our Facebook page, The Curtain and the Cross, as we continue to weave faith and education together.
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Carton and the Cross. I seriously want to do a new theme song based on that, not necessarily saying I need to be the one who sings it. Like maybe I can make like an AI theme song or something.
Speaker 2:You definitely need some like Joe, with the background with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice little strum, strumming of the banjo. Yeah, so hi, hi, grace.
Speaker 2:Hello Nathan.
Speaker 1:What have you been up to since our last episode?
Speaker 2:Since our last episode, I have had three snow days where we had virtual learning at my school, so that was fabulous. And then we had auditions for our spring musical. So we are doing the Wizard of Oz and we've started rehearsing, and it has been packed full of fun and excitement. What about you, friend?
Speaker 1:Same, even though I don't really didn't really have to do much, because, you know, virtual theater isn't really a thing in elementary school Because, like in your, your, your situation they go, they go to you every single day. My situation I only see one class one time a week for 40 minutes. So, like, I see all the kids in the school but I only see their class once a week for 40 minutes. So I enjoyed our son's first snow experience and by the time this episode drops, my son will be not three yet, but his birthday will be coming up soon and so I'm super excited about that. But did you notice that when your students came back from those snow days, that they had lost their minds?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Yes, it was the longest week of my life. It was awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was pretty insane. And then on top of that, you know the kids having to relearn how to listen. You also had, like at our school anyway, every day there was something that would happen whether a bus would be late for some reason. We had like a semi-accident right in front of our school, so there was like traffic going on. So, yeah, it was a crazy week, on top of the fact that kids basically had the whole week off because of snow. But we are somewhat back in the swing of things, hopefully, and we are in rehearsals for our spring production of Beauty and the Beast Junior, I think.
Speaker 1:Last episode I said I couldn't name it, but I don't know why, maybe because I was afraid Disney might be listening. I don't know, but anyway. So today's episode is going to be kind of touchy a little bit. The topic's going to be kind of interesting. It's something that I felt needed to be talked about, especially since there is a situation in my life where I kind of put my foot in my mouth when it comes to things that I post on social media. So brief little story of what that is all about. So Grace and I have talked about that.
Speaker 1:We did theater for a while, and one of the reasons we kind of stepped away was because we felt like the worldliness of it was a little too much at times. So I kind of I guess people would say I kind of got triggered by something that someone posted and I kind of went on a big tyrant tirade whatever you want to call it on facebook and I wrote like this whole long paragraph about how I'm basically just going to say what I said, uh, or the gist of it, because I don't even remember word for word what I said, because, yeah, it wasn't. I felt like it wasn't me typing it, which is weird, but it was all about not affirming and accepting sin and calling it out and not wanting to follow, uh, all these media outlets because they're talking about this, talking about that. And then I posted another one about how I didn't understand how, basically, transgender people can't feel safe and welcome around me just because I don't agree with their lifestyle and all this stuff. Well, some friends of mine in the theater community did not like what I posted and, looking back at the way I worded things, I can totally understand and I'm the type of person who I wouldn't say I'm a people pleaser when it comes to worrying about if I hurt people, because I think everyone should be like that you shouldn't want to seek out hurting people.
Speaker 1:So when I found out that I had hurt these people, my number one reaction was number one delete the posts, because I didn't want Facebook to be able to remind me of that years down the road and to reach out to as many people, cause I wasn't sure exactly who had hurt, who I had hurt. But I heard that I had hurt people and so I reached out to everyone I could think of and thankfully, some of them either didn't even see the post or were very quick to know my heart and know that my intention was not to attack and hurt people. But I have not heard back from the people that I think that I probably hurt the most. So that kind of inspired me, I guess, to talk about what we're going to talk about this episode. To talk about what we're going to talk about this episode.
Speaker 1:So we work in the public school system and so we are going to come in contact with students who may be dealing with or thinking about lifestyle choices that aren't conducive with what we believe. I told Grace before we started recording this is probably going to be a short episode because I feel like we're going to come to the same conclusion of how we deal with that and obviously we're not going to dive into too much situations that we've come into contact with this for, obviously, confidentiality purposes and just for the safety of our students. But I guess the question would be how do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I work at the public school level, so I have I see this every single day.
Speaker 2:I have lots of students in my theater program that do have lifestyles that I may not agree with.
Speaker 2:I have students who are trans or maybe just want to go by different pronouns and all that stuff and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:And the way that I deal with it is by just loving them, because I, for me, the way I can show Christ to those kids is to make them feel loved and by, even though I might not agree that they want to go by he or they, I will still call them that Because I feel like that's going to make them feel safe and that's going to make them feel like they belong in my program. Now, if they were, then ask me hey, miss Jones, do you like, do you agree with me being this or that? Honestly, I don't know what I would say, because I don't want to lie to them and be like, yeah, this is great, but at the same time I don't want to mess up that relationship and have them scared to come to me. So I guess my thing just goes back to loving them, loving them where they're at and just wanting them to feel safe and I feel like through my love, hopefully they're getting Christ from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in the elementary setting I don't, and it's great, it's in my mind, it's crazy to think about in the elementary setting. I don't know if I've come in contact with any students who are trans or um in the gay lifestyle or anything like that. I don't know because and I just don't number one I guess students at that age don't feel comfortable talking about it. Anyway, and yeah, like you said and like I said, it's going to be a short episode. I'm going to love my students and that's what I'm there for. And if that was to ever come up, I honestly don't know how I would react to it because it's an elementary setting. If I was in high school, I would be like what you just said. You know I would not support their lifestyle but support the student.
Speaker 1:And I think there's a difference. And I'm getting to the place where I'm seeing the difference in that you know, with, like I said, with what I posted and after I posted, I'm like Christ just loved people with. I believe Jesus would have hung out with trans people and gay people and people that he didn't necessarily agree with what they were doing, but he loved them anyway. And I go to the story of the woman caught in adultery and he says go and send no more. He didn't just say go he, he said go and send no more. But he also says is there anyone here to condemn you? And she says no, and he says neither do I, I, neither do I condemn you, so it's not our place.
Speaker 1:And I I'm basically using this episode as like a therapy session, too, for myself, because it's not, it's not not our place and I'm learning that, and because it's it's something that, for some reason, I was ingrained with and I don't think it was my parents, I don't even think it was my church. I think, basically what I was saying when I posted the whole thing about not following media outlets anymore I think I was following some conservative voices that the way they worded things and the way they talked against things was becoming the way I was coming across. Does that make sense? Like, have you ever found yourself listening to outside voices so much that you start regurgitating that rhetoric? Have you ever found that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I have to be careful of what I listen to because I, whenever I surround myself with I, begin thinking that. So I just I always try to start in the word Because as long as I'm surrounding myself, in truth, and that, hopefully, I stay accurate throughout the day. But I just want to touch on one point you make to like you talked about how Jesus would have came for, and like ate with sinners and stuff. And you know, and as one of the point out, like one of my favorite verses is Mark 2, 17, where it's like Jesus didn't come for not the healthy that need a doctor, but the sick, and Jesus he would have came for those people.
Speaker 2:And then us as Christians and as teachers, especially as Christians, we look at certain sins like one is so much worse than the other, like, oh, my goodness, that kid got caught smoking weed or something you know, or oh, they're homosexual, they're this, this, and we're like putting them in different levels. But God sees all sin, even, you know, and equal. And I heard an analogy once that like we look at sin, like we're looking at skyscrapers, one's higher than the other, and then God sees it from right, above, there, from on top, they're all even, and then it just takes me back to to where. So me as a teacher, I don't want to judge these kids, I don't want to come at them. And then again, if you go back to Matthew when it's like, why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye when you have a plank in your own eye? So I have stuff in my life that I have no right. I feel like judging these kids, so I'm just going to stick with love. That's where it's at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been shown so much grace in my life Like we could do a whole podcast, like a separate whole podcast. It wouldn't be on this one, but I could do another podcast, and every episode would be about the stupid things that I've done in my life and how both God and the people in my life, like certain people, have shown me grace when I honestly don't believe that I deserved it, and that's what's so amazing about you know, amazing grace. That's what's so amazing about it, though, is that it's undeserved but it's freely given. About it, though, is that it's undeserved but it's freely given, and I think that's what we should be with our students.
Speaker 1:They always say that you always start fresh every day, not every week, not every month, not every year.
Speaker 1:Every single day it should be a clean slate, and, whether slate and whether that student was crazy the day before or the sweetest little angel, you treat them no matter what. You treat them with love and respect, and they always say you know, respect is respect is earned. Yes, it is, but I think, as adults because you know we are the adult in the room we should model how to show respect by automatically showing respect to our students, and I think for you, grace, that might be even more so because these kids, I mean, I don't know how close in age you are to them, but know it's gotta be even more difficult for you because these kids, some of these kids, can look down at you like literally. And so how do you deal with being that adult in the room who has to not necessarily tell your students hey, I'm going to, I'm only going to respect you if you respect me. I honestly don't think that that should be the teacher's mindset. So how do you, how do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's definitely not how I go about it. So I started teaching high school when I was 23. So I was like five years older than the well, I know I had a 19 year old, four, four years older than the oldest student in my class. So it was. It was difficult that first year, and building respect was hard. And it's also difficult because we, as teachers, are told that building relationships is the most important part of our job. Building those relationships with your students, making them feel safe, making them feel loved, so that they can learn, which is great and which definitely we have to do, and it's also something that Jesus says to do. You know, love, build relationship, yes.
Speaker 2:However, by doing that, it made it really hard for students to see me as the adult in the room and not as their friend.
Speaker 2:They're like what are you talking about? We have this awesome relationship, we have this cool handshake You're my friend, you're my bud and having to like, draw the line and be like no, actually I respect you and I have this relationship with you, but we I am your teacher and I'm not your friend so having to draw that line was difficult. But as for the respect that you were saying, I treat others the way I want to be treated, always my students. I speak to them the way I would another adult. My students I speak to them the way I would another adult. I say yes, ma'am, and no, sir to my students because I feel like it's the polite thing to do and it's they make them feel important. I make sure every student is heard, even if their ideas may not be top tier, I hear them out and we have conversations because I feel, like me as a student, I learned the best within a conversation, within a hands-on while I was feeling important, and that's, I guess, what I try to do with my students.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what you said about, yes, we have this relationship, we have this good rapport, it reminds me of that's exactly, probably how God talks to us. He's like, yes, I love you, I died for you, I have this relationship with you, but at the end of the day, I'm in charge, like, you can show me your plans, you can tell me, hey, this is what I think should happen. But at the end of the day, we're going to do this theater game, we're going to do this book report, we're going to analyze this play. Well, god wouldn't say any of that, but us, as theater teachers, we would say that, because I can't tell you how many times in the elementary setting I'll have students say Mr Pierce, can I just sit out of this activity today? Like, can you sit out of your math test? I mean, can you sit out of your English report that you have to do? No, you can't. So guess what? You can't do that in my class either. And yes, I do talk to my students like that, and it's because I I I've built that rapport with them that they know I'm not being hurtful and have I made children cry? Yes, but they. But I have gotten to the point where I can explain myself to them. And then they're like oh, that's why you were a jerk, them. And then they're like oh, that's why you were a jerk. And I said, yes, that's why mr pierce was a jerk.
Speaker 1:Uh, speaking of uh, teachers being respectful and showing love to their students, I had mentioned in an episode of my movie review podcast uh, the couch credit shameless plug that I went to go see a movie called brave the dark. Now I told grace that she needed to go see this movie so we could talk about it. But she has not seen it. But we're still going to talk about it because I believe that every single teacher needs to go see this movie. And what I loved about it and I mentioned it in my review is that it's not a cookie cutter Christian movie. I believe any person can go see this. Each teacher, hopefully, should see themselves as a mentor, a support system for their students. They're not just there to teach them. That's part of the job. Obviously, that's probably the most important part of the job, but at the end of the day, I see and this is the Christian part. I see my class as a ministry and I think we had both talked about that before. We see it as a place that God has placed us to make an impact on our students.
Speaker 1:And the movie Brave the Dark number one. It's based on a true story, so that's just amazing in and of itself. But the length that this teacher went to almost literally save his student is just inspiring. And I had never heard of this guy. His name was Stan Dean and he was a drama teacher, which is why another reason why I was like Grace you as a high school theater teacher need to go see this movie.
Speaker 1:It made me, I'm pretty sure I cried. I'm pretty sure I cried because I want to be that type of teacher that makes such an impact and that could be semi-selfish of me, but that makes such an impact that do I want my students to look back and say, man, I really loved being in Mr Pierce's theater class. Yes, I do, and if that makes me selfish, then so be it, but I just think it's fantastic. Go and ask you, grace, have you ever, in your five years of experience, correct you had to advocate for your students? Maybe not to the extent, obviously, hopefully maybe not to the extent that stan dean did in the uh in the movie brave the, but you've had to advocate and support your students.
Speaker 2:I really haven't had too much of a point where I had to. I mean, I've had to advocate for, like the arts in general and just like that were maybe not as important as sports, but we're still important. So it would be nice if we can have a set date and it not change because of sport activities or um having students who want to do multiple things and advocating for them to be in the show. When um, I had a student who was in our self-contained classroom but they really wanted to be in the show, so I had advocated for them and I was like, so what I can see from the student, they really enjoy theater and they're well behaved when they're in here and they ended up being able to come to rehearsals and being a part of the show and we're amazing Like we had one small incident that was cleared up and besides that, like they did great. But I really haven't had any opportunities where I've really had to advocate for my students yet.
Speaker 1:Well, I and I think you know you're you're selling yourself short because you have no idea what advocating for that one student to be in that production did for that student. Because we don't know what these kids are going through. We don't know I mean for, for I mean we don't know why a kid is in a self-contained classroom, we don't know what they're dealing with. And so I would say that's 100% an example of seeing the potential in a student who maybe no one else sees the potential because they're in a certain situation, and you take it upon yourself to say, no, I see something in this student, so the student is going to be in this production, and that could have been life-changing. You, you never know, cause, especially in high school, kids aren't. I mean, I don't know if this is your experience, you know, based on my two months in high school, but a lot of teenagers aren't as open to expressing gratitude and opening up to students. Now, I know a lot of people have said you know that the theater teacher or the arts teacher in general is usually the number one person that students do go to to talk about certain things. But at the same time, I mean, who knows, the student may not be that person who's going to come up to you and say, oh my goodness, ms Jones, thank you so much for letting me be in this show, but I tend to believe that anytime you see the potential in a student, it does something to them, whether it's an outward expression that they show or something that just stays with them for the rest of their lives, even if they never acknowledge it. It does something and so, like I said, you're selling yourself short.
Speaker 1:I myself have advocated for a student when I worked at another elementary school. It was one of those situations where they said something that was out of place in class and I spoke up for this student to one of our counselors, to one of our counselors, and, long story short, they ended up getting placed in a I think I think it was a foster home or something because something was going on. And, of course, at first I felt terrible because the student wasn't at our school anymore, but the counselor was like no anymore. But the counselor was like no, you did exactly what you're supposed to do, and this student is now in a safer place because of something you said. And then, obviously, like your situation, seeing the potential in students, like in the Grinch, and seeing that student who I was very surprised when they auditioned. He must have auditioned for some reason, and he told me the reason because he wanted a memory in fifth grade. But I'm like there's got to be more to that, because I would have never thought that he would have auditioned for the show.
Speaker 1:And so I think, as theater teachers, we probably all do what you did and sell ourselves short and don't think much of yeah, I cast this kid and I told my admin that this kid needs to be in the show, and so we might see that as like a throwaway thing. But no, I think each student who comes into the theater whether it's something they 100% want to do, which I believe is very rare nowadays or if it's a student that just sees it as a dumping ground class and you're like, your first reaction could be you're right, this is a dumping ground class, get out of my classroom. But I think, if we see it as truly a ministry and I'm speaking to myself because, again, I did two months in high school and I was that person who was like you're right, this is a dumping ground class, you need to get out of my class I didn't say those words, but that's how I treated that student, that's how I treated that situation. But if I was truly seeing this as an opportunity that God was giving me and seeing it as a true ministry, I should have put my feet in the ground and said I'm going to do this and I'm doing this because God has sent me. And I feel there are times that I feel bad that I left and didn't have more confidence in myself, but I also believe that where I am right now is where I'm supposed to be, and so, yeah, teaching theater is great.
Speaker 1:So are there any final thoughts about? I know, this episode kind of started one way and then just went all over the place, but I think we basically everything we talked about is basically about the same thing Loving our students as Christ loves us. That is what we're called to do. We are not called to judge, and if you actually look at the Bible, the only people we're supposed to be judging is actually other Christians who aren't living the way they're supposed to be living and showing the fruit of the spirit in their lives. So that is something I'm having to learn every single day. So are there any final thoughts that you have about what we've talked about this episode.
Speaker 2:Are there any final thoughts that you have about what we've talked about this episode? I don't. I think this was a good one and a good reminder that just us as humans, it is easy to want to judge because we are judgy people by making you know, and it's just like I think of the game that circled around TikTok you know like we listen and we don't judge, although I do have to remind my students. I'm like I am a mandated reporter. I do judge and I report if you say something that should be judged. But that's our job, not to judge but to love. And so, yeah, I think this was awesome.
Speaker 1:If you're listening to the show, you should follow us, share us with all your friends. And if you are a Christian artist, theater teacher, all of the above general ed educator, we would love to have you on the show to talk about your experience as a Christian in either the public, school realm or the theater world. You can contact us on our Facebook page, the carton and the cross, to send us a message, and we would love to have you on and share in God's love of students and the theater. So this is Nathan, and Grace signing off Thank you.
