The Curtain and the Cross
We were created by a creative God. Nathan and Grace (along with some of other friends) discuss what it's like to be a creative Christian in both the public school system and the theatre world.
The Curtain and the Cross
Faith and Stage: Where Performance Meets Purpose
Ever wondered how faith and theatre can beautifully intertwine in everyday life? Join us as we recount the inspiring journeys of Grace and myself, where childhood church plays and high school performances sparked our passion for the performing arts. Our stories highlight the powerful fusion of our faith in Christ with a love for theatre, leading us to fulfilling careers in teaching. Celebrate with us as we mark 15 downloads in our first week, and invite you to explore our episodes on Spotify and YouTube.
Discover the transformative impact theatre education has on young performers, as we share heartwarming tales of students who found their voice and self-confidence under the stage lights. From a shy student's triumphant first audition to a seemingly disinterested fifth grader's standout performance as the Grinch, these stories demonstrate the profound effects of supportive mentorship in fostering personal growth. As Christian educators, we emphasize the broader life skills gained through theatre, such as character building and public speaking, and discuss the delicate balance of encouraging students to pursue theatre beyond the school setting.
Reflecting on our own journeys as drama teachers, we share touching moments of unexpected blessings and affirmations from our students that reaffirm our purpose. Whether it’s a thoughtful drawing of my dog who passed away or a personalized shirt that served as a divine confirmation, these gestures of appreciation remind us of our impact in the lives of our students. We also extend an invitation to fellow Christian teachers and thespians to share their experiences of navigating faith within the theatre community, encouraging engagement and connection through our fan mail. Together, let's continue teaching and showing God's love in our communities.
Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of the curtain and the cross. I had to make up for the fact that I didn't do that at the end of last episode, so yeah, I'm second episode. Thank you Everyone who has who has listened so far. We made it to 15 downloads in just one week, so I think that's impressive. So you are one of those listeners. Please, as soon as you're finished listening to this episode, share it with your friends. I'm pretty sure right now we're on spotify. We are streaming our episodes. It's not video, but we are streaming our episodes on youtube. So just search the curtain and the cross on youtube. And I don't know what's taking Apple Podcasts so long, but we will eventually, hopefully, be on Apple Podcasts and all your other podcast platforms, so you don't just have to go to our podcast website anymore. So, grace, how have you been since our last episode?
Speaker 2:Hello, nathan, I am fabulous. I am really looking forward to this episode. It was nice to dive in and get started last week and since then I've been thinking about how I do put theater and Christ together each day, without realizing it, and I've noticed so many subtle things that I didn't even think I do each day and I'm excited to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, didn't even think I do each day and I'm excited to talk about it, yeah, so if you didn't listen to our episode last week, our very first episode go ahead, listen to it. We dove into our testimonies about how we met Christ and, of course, that's the most important aspect of this show, but we also wanted to take this week to talk about our I guess you could call it testimony when it comes to how we got into theater. And Grace and I mentioned last episode that we both decided to kind of break away from actually doing theater to focus more on teaching it. And I was thinking about a question and I won't ask it now, but I was thinking about a question that I'll ask after we talk about how we got into theater and why we may have decided to step away from it. So last week I went first with my Christ testimony, so I'm going to allow Grace to go first with her theater journey. So take it away.
Speaker 2:All righty to go first with her theater journey. So take it away, all righty. So my theater journey starts very similar to my testimony in Christ and I started doing theater with church. So I started being in Christmas plays each year. I literally was baby Jesus when I was a baby in our Christmas play. So it was great and I loved it and I was homeschooled too at the time. So it really gave me an outlet to express myself around friends and I joined the drama club in our homeschool co-op and loved doing shows with them as well Decided that, hey, this is something I really enjoy and I could see myself like doing this for a living. And obviously I had the best parents that were like, yeah, follow your dreams, you've got it. So I did and I went to college for performing arts.
Speaker 2:I studied two years at COA, which is College of the Albemarle. It was a community college and I was blessed there to have. The directors at the time were actually Christians, so they had the shows for the school, but then during the summer they did their own kind of shows that were usually religious based. So I was able to be a part of that and it was just amazing. A great opportunity, a great time in my life.
Speaker 2:I fell in love with theater even more and went on to transfer to App State and did theater there and I loved it. But I started to realize the world of theater when you're not surrounded by other Christians is not as safe as it was from early being Jesus in a Christmas play to that surrounded by love and Christian beliefs in my community college. So I still loved theater and I loved the art of it. But I also had a pool for working with kids. So ever since I was in high school I babysat and I did 4-H.
Speaker 2:I helped volunteer at different camps. I volunteered at church camp, I volunteered at a theater camp and I was like I really love doing theater but I also really love working with children. I felt like God was really calling me to work with kids. So from upstate I was like studying performance but leaning more towards teaching theater. And I actually had the opportunity to work after school with a mountainside school which was sort of like a co-op in Boone where I taught a theater class after school for middle schoolers and I was like this is really fun and I loved it. So I talked and I figured out a way to kind of go more towards teaching theater and then here we are.
Speaker 1:My theater journey is similar. I did plays at church. I was the dead boy in our Easter musical and people cried. They really believed that I was dead and that Jesus really brought me back to life, which he did spiritually, but in the play it was like whoa, so good. And then, of course, I did vbs shows at my church. I didn't really get into theater and this will make you happy grace I didn't really get into theater all the way until I got into high school, because I know you teach high school, until I got into high school because I know you teach high school and, um, I mean, I did some stuff in elementary school. I remember one musical I don't, I don't, I don't think it was like a full out musical, but I remember one very vividly because me and someone else saying colors of the wind from Pocahontas, and the play was called the rainbow people, which back in back in my day it wasn't seen.
Speaker 1:As you know, a rainbow is nowadays. I won't go any further than that. So it was just like an innocent. We were different colors of the rainbow and we came together at the end and we were colors of the wind and it was fantastic. And so I but, like I said, I didn't get into theater really until I did theater in high school. That was like my thing, and my first musical was Snoopy the musical and I was a method actor and so I shaved my head. My teacher even told me I didn't have to, but I was like no, I'm an actor, this is what we and I just loved it.
Speaker 1:I fell in love with theater. I went to college, majored in theater, minored in children's ministry. I think I mentioned that last episode and I mean, one of the biggest reasons I went to the college I went to is because I fell in love with the theater program and it happened to be a Christian school too, and so best of both worlds. Then I dove into the theater world community theater right when I left college, did shows there, and that's when I like got into like the world side of theater, because until then I was like in this christian bubble and I did christian theater, even though we did like into the woods and scarlet Pimpernel, so it wasn't like your pokey Christian shows. And then I did the producers, I did dirty rotten scoundrels, the musical, which I loved, and then I moved back home and I was like man, I really want to dive back into theater as soon as I moved back home and I did, and at first, again, again, theater was one of my first loves, one of my biggest passions. As I mentioned last episode, I felt like I needed to be a children's pastor, to work with kids, and so I didn't really try to go towards that. When I moved back home, it was more so like theater, theater, theater, theater. And I subbed every now and then in the public school, but I was really into like doing Shakespeare, I did a Christmas Carol, I did hairspray, I did all these shows and really formed a community with all of the actors, local actors here in in Fayetteville and Sanford and you know places like that.
Speaker 1:When I had moved back home and I started doing theater, I realized that you know, actors need that affirmation and they need that. I hesitate to say the word, but I'm going to say it anyway. They need that love from the audience, to like, thrive and to feel worth. And it's that that actor feeling started to slowly creep its way into my life, like outside of theater, and so when I move back home I I don't want to dive too much into things that happened. That gave another reason why I kind of fell away from theater.
Speaker 1:But I was a very desperate person when I moved back home. I wanted to eat, make friends, I wanted um. I think I mentioned last episode that I had been engaged when I was in Florida, so I was really searching for like the one, and so I was at in a place where I got myself into some really bad situations. That and it was strictly because I was just desperate to find friendship, desperate to find relationships, and it got me into some, you know, really bad places and that right, there should have been like a red flag that maybe the theater world isn't really where I'm supposed to be. But I kept doing it anyway and I found other theater troops that I was could be a part of long story short, because I could ramble on this forever.
Speaker 1:It got to a point where I just felt like I didn't belong in the theater world and it wasn't necessarily anything anyone did recently. It was just remembering all the bad stuff that I had been through when I first moved back. And you know, the world being the world, and it's just got to a point where I was just like I sat, I was like in the middle of this local theater troupe and I and I, and I feel bad because I, you know, I don't know who might be listening to this, so somebody from there could be listening, but I was sitting in the middle of this theater troupe and I was just looking around and it was like smiling and laughing and whatever. And I was just sitting there. I was like why am I here? Like what am I doing? And it just got to that point where I was like this is it for me, this is it.
Speaker 1:And it was not an easy decision because, again, theater has always been a part of my life and it still is, because I teach it. But the performing side of it was always something that I was like I need to do this. And that's when you know it's time to go, because you don't. You shouldn't get to a point where you need to do it to feel validation, to feel worth, because I'm married, I have two kids. You know that right there is gives me all the worth I need.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's that's a very long and, yeah, yeah, drawn out explanation of my journey in the theater, and so I guess it kind of gets me to my question. I was gonna ask because you and I both teach theater and it gets me. I was thinking, I was thinking about this before we recorded. I was like, why do we teach theater? Because we, we both kind of got to a place where we personally were like we don't want to be part of this, and yet we are teaching it to children and in some cases like I know I do this Some cases we encourage them to go out and audition for shows. So how do we, how do you justify that and and balance that with how you personally feel about the world of theater?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. I think theater definitely it can be ugly for Christian, the life of it, but the overall feelings of theater. So you take away the like finding self-worth and everything in theater and you focus more on the ensemble of it. Is what I focus on is the family you have there and the sense of belonging, the fact that everyone's important, everyone has a role, everyone it makes up this show, this whole thing that if you look in the bible, we are the body of christ. You know we're all different people that work together, that come together, that belong together.
Speaker 2:And I just feel like, even though theater's message may not be that, yeah, you are Christ, but the idea there comes from the Bible, comes from that idea of many parts working together to make a whole. And it is like, and the love you show to one another through theater, like Christ calls us to love. It's one of the biggest commandments, one of the greatest commandments. And in theater you are loved by your ensemble members If you're in a good troupe, if you're in a good group. Obviously there are the ones that you're like, eh, but for the most part like it's a family and it's the closest thing to Christ if it's done right. And even though in teaching in the school setting, I can't be like, hey, we are doing God's work, obviously, but just through my actions, through loving and my kids loving, I feel like I'm sharing Christ without having to say a word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why I consider myself blessed to have been able to work in a Christian school setting, because I was able to connect theater to the importance of, like you said, an ensemble and how, when one person's missing, everything else can fall apart. How one part of the body needs the other part of the body needs the other part. And one of my biggest things about why I love teaching theater is number one I get to teach kids to not go down the same road that I did kind of like not to want to find their worth in the theater. Worth in the theater, it's not about that. It's about finding confidence in yourself and being able to build yourself upon that so you can do anything else in life, because that that's one of my favorite things is, um, and there's one instance that I always think about, because I remember when I was talking about the show after it was done, I started bawling my eyes out because there was that one kid who was the quietest kid. The quietest, she was so quiet. I like the first time I met her, I was like what is going on with her? She's super quiet, she's super shy and she auditioned for the show. Now, granted, it is not a. That again, I hope no one that was a part of this is listening. But it wasn't a show that I would have picked to do, but we did it.
Speaker 1:And there was another reason why I was surprised that she auditioned. But she went up there and she rocked her lines and she was off book before almost everybody else and I was just like how many of you have never done a show before? And she raised her hand and that when I saw her hand I already knew. But I was saying it for, like the audience's, you know knowledge. And as soon as she raised her hand I started like bawling because that's what it's about for me. It's about finding those kids who would never have thought about doing it. The same thing happened when we did our production of the Grinch.
Speaker 1:The kid who auditioned for the Grinch was a fifth grader who I always thought was like too cool for school and he auditioned and he rocked it and he told me the reason he wanted to do it was because he wanted to have a good memory for his last thing in elementary school. And I seriously had to try not to cry in front of this kid Because I'm like that's my why. You know they always say try to find your why. When you get to a point in your job that you just can't find the joy in anymore, find your why. Well, that was my why right there. So that's what I try to look for when I'm teaching theater, because it is hard. It is hard for me to recommend kids to go out and audition for stuff in the same environment that I myself would not go and audition for. And so do you, do you do that for your kids? Do you? Do you recommend them audition outside of school?
Speaker 2:I do, yeah, and, like you said, I am conflicted sometimes, but I just hope that I've set them with enough love and it just boils down to who they're going to either pursue something or not. And if they're going to, I'm going to give them what they need to do it and I'm going to love them through it. But yeah, I've never really thought about that in too much depth, about sending them out, but now you're going to have me worried about that more. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the thing, we're coming at it as two christians talking about this, and I don't want to downplay it, but majority of the kids that we interact with we don't know what their belief system is, so we we see it as possibly sending them out to you know whatever, but they see it as their teachers believing in them enough to send them out and to audition. Because there are some talented kids at my school, like we're. We're already an art school, we're a school of the arts, and so we already have that, that pool of kids that we know that can do it. And so, of course, if I see a kid who has the potential to rock a role in a show, I'm going to recommend them. I'm going to say, hey, you better go out and audition, and if you get it, you know I'm going to be front row, because that's another. That's another thing that I try to do, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I'm not saying I'm the best theater teacher in the world, but I believe all theater teachers do this. I mean, I've seen other teachers who do this too, so it's not just me.
Speaker 1:I always make it a point, whether they're a present student or a past student, if I know they're going to be in something. It's kind of like what they say, like if you know a kid's softball or baseball schedule and you make a point to go see their games. If I know a kid is in a show and I have either the monetary means or I'm really good friends with the parents and they help me find a way to go, I'm going to make sure I can be there because I want them to see that. Oh, mr Pierce believes in you isn't just something I say, it's something that I actually do, and I think that is a way of shining Christ's light and love onto those children without actually saying it. And so do you make it a point to like if you know a kid's going to be in something, like you're like first in line.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I had a girl who graduated and she did some community theater and I made sure to go and see that. And then we had one student who was actually still in high school but for the community college they opened it up to the community to audition for the shows as well and they were doing Little Mermaid and she got the role of Ariel. So I was like, oh my gosh, so we brought the whole of Ariel. So I was like, oh my gosh, so we brought the whole drama department, got it, we went and saw her in that.
Speaker 2:So we I definitely try to support my kids, even when they're no longer technically my students, just to know that I am rooting for them. Jumping back real quick to other ways, like we show love and Christ in the theater and like why we do it. Just that helps students build character too, just and confidence. I feel like even if we're not pushed, even if it's a student that doesn't want to go on and do theater, like just taking the classes and being a part of theater helps them, like in everyday confidence skills, it helps them with public speaking or it can just help them get out of their comfort zone and try something new that they never thought they would do and may fall in love with. So just that's another reason why I really love to do it and I love to surround myself in that environment.
Speaker 1:I sometimes say you know, I don't expect you to leave my classroom in love with theater. If you do awesome, that's great. Again, I'll go and see you in shows and if you win awards, you can always thank me. But I also say theater class, especially for elementary students, especially for the little kids. It allows them to use I don't say this, but it allows them to use their God-given creativity. And because a lot of these kids, especially as they get older, they feel like they don't have creativity, they feel like they don't have any imagination left in them. Like, but you do, and I say I'm not mad at you.
Speaker 1:I get frustrated because I know that you are creative, whether you believe it or not, and whether it's in theater or not. I mean, you can be creative in music, you can be creative in art, but while you're in my class, you can utilize that creativity. If it's like hey, I don't feel like acting. Okay, well, draw what you think the set would look like, or come up with the theme music or the background music or something, I don't do that. But now that I'm talking about it, I may do that in the future. But it's like things like that, like god created us to be creative, because he is creative, and so theater, to me, is the gateway to that. And it's just amazing and we're doing, uh, we're doing a show that I don't know if I can name because copyright laws, but we're doing a show and there's kids in this cast and I'm like what the super?
Speaker 1:shy kids like what, what, how, the what. So I'm super excited to see them perform. Because, again, that's what gets me the most excited about theater is taking those kids that either you never would think would do this or you know they have the potential but they've never been able to push themselves to do it. And now for some reason they are and just encourage them as much as I can, and that's what I think is the most important thing about what I do. Would you concur 100%?
Speaker 2:100. I do not work at a school of the arts, I work at just a regular old public school. So a lot of times it's amazing. Actually I love it. Thank you, uh. But because of that I get students who don't know anything about theater and they don't know anything um coming into the classes. They just get thrown in because they need an elective um. My first two years were my class was literally a dumping ground. It was. It was difficult, but I built up the program and it's great. But that's another way like just to show love and Christ through theater to these kids and opening their eyes to something other than ways to express themselves and be creative. And it's just like you said. It's just a great way to what was your quote you said. I wrote it down because it was amazing. God created us to create, because he is the creator, and that is just perfect.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, I mean again, that's not something I made up. Don't quote me.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was totally giving you full creds. You could have had me full.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it, I appreciate it, you full creds you could have had. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. But, um, so I guess to, to wrap up this episode about our theater journey and and incorporating it into what we do, one big question, because I was, I was actually thinking of this a little bit ago what was if you had a moment? What was the moment that you knew? Where you are now is where God wants you to be? Because for me, there are, like, many moments, so there doesn't have to be one because that's kind of difficult but, like, have there been situations where you're like, yep, this is where God has me?
Speaker 2:I definitely have had moments. Recently, I had just a student who had gone through a lot of bullying, and some of it, too, was like girls from her church, and it was baffling to me. I was like what, but so like her being able coming into the theater program and just like building that family. And she would come and, um, eat lunch in my room sometimes just to vent and talk about how hard everything was. And we'd talk, and then she like shared with me later how impactful these conversations, that in my head I was just like all right, I can just get through hanging out with you for a few extra minutes, like I can give up my lunch. And in her mind, though, I was giving her this profound advice that she then it's thanking me for, and I was just like, wow, advice that she then is thanking me for. And I was just like, wow, all right, god, I see you, like you were putting me here for a reason, and it may just be to listen to these kids and to hear them and to love them.
Speaker 2:And also, just a few shows ago, I had one student who was on the spectrum and she didn't have very many friends, but homegirl could act. She was amazing. So she was in the show and she was actually the mom. We did a Christmas story and she was the mother in that and she was phenomenal. And afterwards she came up and she thanked me because she was having like thoughts that I'm not going to get into and she said theater pulled her from that. It made her feel safe and a place and loved and I was just like all right, I see you, god, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. You put me here for a reason and you are making it obvious, so I just. Things like that are definitely my probably aha moments.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So I'll go to, I guess, the little kid versions of that. So it's always those little things like hey, mr Pierce, I really had fun in your class today, like today was really fun. Or I get to see you today, like when they get off the bus, I get to see you today, I have your class today. Or some kid will say man, I'm really upset that we're not having school on Friday, because that means I won't have your class. And so it's like little, little things like that.
Speaker 1:Or if it's like the little kids and they draw a picture, I don't even care what it is. They draw a picture and say Mr Pierce, I drew this for you. Or, case in point, I have a painting of my dog that passed away last October, and so I have a picture of him in my in my classroom. I don't know if that sounds morbid or not, but I do. And the kids noticed it and they're like whose dog is that? I'm like, well, that's my dog. He passed away. And then we moved on to the next activity and I think it was before we went home for Christmas break.
Speaker 1:And I had like two or three kids come up to me and say, mr Pierce, I drew you this and it's like a picture of a pug, because my dog was a pug, and like little notes, like I'm sorry your dog passed away. But because my dog was a pug and like little notes, like I'm sorry your dog passed away, but know that that you, you'll see him again someday, I'm like what? And like little things like that and like, like I mentioned before, with shows, like the grinch with those kids that I never would thought would go and do it, and um, and, and the biggest thing for me well, two big big things. The biggest thing for me well, two big big things. The biggest thing for me is I came to the school that I'm at the middle of the school year, super stressed, didn't know how, what it was going to be like, and I found out that there were like multiple kids from the previous Christian private Christian school that I had taught at at this school school that I had taught at at this school, and so just to know that those kids were there and to know that those parents that I knew were there, that helped me a lot and kind of cemented that God had me where he wanted me.
Speaker 1:But then there was one big moment where I was questioning if I should go back to where I just came from and I was like I don't know if I need to be in the public school anymore. I had actually said to someone years before and it was actually the teacher who I took the place of, ironically enough I was like I'm never coming back to public school, never. And then here I am now, but I was questioning it and I had talked to this one kid like weeks, maybe a month prior about hey, mr Pierce, what's your shirt size? I'm like I wear an extra one. And so I was again month later questioning whether I should be in the public school system, didn't know my worth, felt worthless, this stuff. Long story short, he comes to my classroom with this personalized shirt on the back saying mr pierce, and it says three times which is crazy because the number three is, uh, kind of important in the bible it says three times on the bottom of it drama teacher, drama teacher, drama teacher, drama teacher. And no, I did not cry, but that, right, there was like a big old confirmation of that. God has me where he wants me to make the biggest impact on these kids and it's. There are still moments where I question, there are still moments where I'm like but the fact that those kids are just so awesome and that I get to just teach them theater, and it's awesome and I love it and the kids are great. So, yeah, god just always finds ways to. You know, they call it little God winks and confirmation, whatever you want to call it, but just to see the excitement and the smiles on the kids' faces when they come to my class or see me in the hallway and again, it's not about me, but I believe that that's God's way of saying, yeah, you're supposed to be here because these kids like you, and so, anyway, that's our second episode. I think it was a good one.
Speaker 1:What do you think? Definitely, you can send us some fan mail. What is fan mail? It's kind of like a text message. You send us a message. It goes straight to our podcast website and you can ask us questions. Give us some topics you want to talk about. If you're a Christian teacher and you want to share your story, if you're a Christian thespian and you want to share your story, how do you navigate your Christian life in the theater world. Grace and I obviously can't do it because we dropped out of theater, but there are people out there who are part of the theater world and are also awesome Christians. I know some, Grace knows some, and maybe they'll be on the show sometime. So there is a link at the bottom of our show description. It says send us fan mail. So go ahead, send us some fan mail. Let us know what you want us to talk about and if you want to hop on, let us know that too. Grace, do you have any final thoughts?
Speaker 2:Just keep teaching and showing God's love, guys.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, this is the curtain and the cross, and this is Nathan and Grace signing out. Thank you.
